Mostly
old news except:
(5:39)
Terry Copeland (TC): Currently
23 public transit agencies in 11 states, plus the District of Columbia, have
submitted grant requests to obtain funds to purchase Proterra busses and
charging stations.
(10: 00)
Robert Pedrazza (RP): With over
60 years of energy-related sales experience between our three senior directors
of energy storage solutions Altairnano is leading the way for bringing
advanced lithium ion products to utility scale applications within the
electrical grid.
Our
first senior director has a proven track record as a leader in sales, business
development, and strategy in the renewable energy industry.
As the Energy Director at Converteam
he built the company’s Energy Business Segment and established Converteam
as a supplier of electrical systems to renewable energy projects throughout
North America. He also held positions with Seimens and participated in
the financing and creation of the Solar 1 Project in Nevada as Vice President
and General Manager of Acciona.
He holds a Bachelors of Science in Mechanical Engineering from Notre
Dame and also holds a Masters of Business Administration from Rawlins
College.
Our
second director has a strong background in the energy industry as well.
He has 17 years of industry related sales experience with Wärtsilä
where
he most recently held the title of Director of Business Development for Central
America. As the Director of Business Development at Wartsila, a life
cycle power solutions company, he developed new markets and projects for the
company throughout Central America including the development of $120 million
dollars of contracts in his final three years with that company.
He holds a Bachelors of Science in Electrical Engineering from the Tennessee
Technological University.
Our
third senior director has over 15 years of experience developing new business in
alternative energies. As senior
director of business development for Fuel
Cell Energy he
developed new market strategies and closed over 50 million dollars in business
in the state of California in his four-year tenure with the company.
He previously held a position with GE as the technical sales
leader for power delivery equipment in the western region.
He holds a Bachelors of Science in Mechanical Engineering from the California
Maritime Academy.
These
top tier senior directors not only bring not only bring both national and
international sales experience, but the critical technical expertise required to
keep Altairnano on-pace to meet, and potentially exceed, our company
objectives…
(14:18)
TC: Finally, I’d
like to finish with some recently received good news.
Altairnano has been working with the Office of Naval Research (ONR)
on the possible use of our nano lithium titanate energy storage systems as an
uninterruptible power supply on Navy ships.
As determined by the ONR this program will provide an estimated
$1.5 million dollars in fuel savings and 960 metric tons of carbon reduction
annually per ship. If you’ve
followed this program you’re aware that we expect to have the third phase of
this project signed and in placed within the 1st quarter of this
year. In December President Obama
signed into law an additional $4 million dollars in appropriations for the
project bringing the total appropriations to $16.5 million dollars…
(15:52)
Operator: And we’ll take a
question from Mike McWalters from Wells Fargo Advisors.
Mike:
Good-morning,
guys!
TC: Good-morning,
Mike.
Mike:
I wanted to ask you to explain or describe how AES is using
your product please?
TC:
AES,
of course, the original agreement with AES, we provided a two megawatt
system for them to test that then was tested at Indianapolis Power and Light.
The two megawatt system was really two one-megawatt systems that were
tied together integrated at that
facility. One of those systems has
now been placed at PJM in Norristown. PJM is the Regional
Transmission Operator for that part of the country and it’s actually one of
the largest in the country. That has now been operating in commercial mode for
roughly a year, Robert? I think it
in, like, in May of last year…
RP:
Correct.
TC:
…so, nine months, call it. The
other megawatt is going into Texas. The
exact location I don’t know but it’s my understanding that its “Turn-on”
is immanent. I don’t have an
exact date but they’re putting it in place as we speak.
So those will be the only two commercial applications in the country that
we’re aware of.
TC:
Those are
in what’s called “frequency regulation.”
Very simply frequency regulation is required because there is no current
inventory of electricity. Right now
the producers, utilities, generate power and the various companies, and
individuals, use that power. The
load, which is what we refer to as the user side of that, is constantly
changing. People are turning equipment on and off, lights on and off,
large motors on and off. And so the
utilities have to balance that by scaling up or scaling back down their output
generation but it takes time to do that so there are often mismatches between
the power generated, the energy generated, and the load received.
That can result in frequency disruption.
And, when you get away by about .05 percent that then causes problems on
the generation side. So they have
to be able to manage that change actively. The current systems that they use for
frequency regulation take anywhere from 7 to 15 minutes to come fully on-stream
so it’s not a rapid response. With batteries you get, literally, a millisecond
scaled response to changes in the frequency and that’s what they’re doing
with frequency regulation.
Mike:
Thank-you!
(Dropped
Call)
Kevin:
Yes guys, thanks for taking my call.
I read something about Proterra talking about being an integrator
themselves and from what we learned from DesignLine, is that part of Alternano’s
plan in relationship with Proterra in the future?
TC:
I’m not
quite sure what you’re asking me but Proterra has said that they would
like to be an integrator and provide packs themselves. We’re supporting Proterra
in whatever way that they ask us to support them.
Kevin:
And do you
see a future in having your batteries in charging stations for Proterra and
other companies like Aeroviroment? Is
that part of your… financial…
TC:
Yeah,
it’s a real interesting possibility and one, in fact, that Proterra has
talked publicly about when the battery packs within a bus reach, what they would
term, their life limit which is 80% of their capacity, that they could take
those batteries out. They’re
still good batteries. They’re
just 80% of what they were originally rated.
And they could use those as charging stations so that is absolutely
something that is being looked at and I’m sure that Aerovironment is looking
at a similar usage.
Kevin:
And can you
just reassure us on your relationship with AES?
Very strong? As strong as it
was? Just the silence of the last
couple of months make investors like us wonder how the negotiations are going.
Any other comments you could make about that?
TC: I think that the last public comment that we made around AES
was when Bob Hemphill elected to leave our board and that was to avoid any
potential, and even any appearance of conflict of interest.
I think that speaks for itself and that’s probably all I ought to be
talking about AES. We continue to talk to AES, and a number of other
potential customers, about rolling out projects. But we’re not solely tied, there’s been a misconception
in some corners that we are solely tied to AES and that we solely tied to
AES and have to work through them and sell through them and that’s
completely incorrect.
Kevin:
Yes, I would agree with that and I would say too that with the stock
price so low with AES knowing the technology so well is there any reason that he
would have left the board because AES is really looking at you as a prize
to buy?
TC:
I think his reason for leaving the board was exactly as he stated.
Operator:
We’ll
take our next question from Warren Stevens, a private investor.
Warren:
Good-morning.
Happy New Year.
TC: Hi
Warren. Happy New Year to you.
Warren:
The AEP
community energy storage concept seems to have some interesting functional goals
and restrictions. Are your cells able to meet those requirements and can you
become a potential supplier there?
(23:13)
RP: Yeah, this is Robert.
There’s no doubt that, I think, broadly speaking, our technology can also, is
ideally suited, depending upon system requirements, within the distributed
community energy storage concept. And
there’s no doubt that we are carefully examining that and those opportunities.
And there are other opportunities like AEP also around the world
that we are also evaluating and, in some cases, pursuing.
So I think that community energy storage represents another area but we
have to be careful to remain focused and succeed in one or two applications
before we begin to fractionalize, potentially, you know, make a smaller
configuration and begin to initiate those commercial endeavors.
So, we’re focused, and there’s no doubt there’s an opportunity and
we are evaluating it and again, in some cases, in discussion.
Warren:
OK. Well, I
guess, heading in that direction then, ERCOT wind farms have a variety of
interconnection issues that are solved sometimes, with capacitor banks.
Does an ESS installed at a wind farm is that capable of solving the
ramping and reactive power and other problems that are there?
RP:
Yes.
There is no doubt that our system capabilities are fully able to solve
some of the, those issues, as well as others, that you’ve mentioned. We are
clearly in contact with market participants within ERCOT.
Our senior directors are in vigorous dialogue and we do see those as
commercial opportunities for the company.
Warren:
There’s a
Duke power project that’s trying to pair fast storage and longer
storage. Would that type of thing be the main focus or would it just
be primarily a frequency regulation device that might then also have a couple of
other things that could be mixed in by, say, the transmission operator?
RP: Fundamentally our product solution is a rapid response
high-power capability. So we’re
ideally suited for applications that need that response within twenty
milliseconds that need that power capability that can leverage the long cycle
life, the wide operating temperature. When
you start talking about hybrid systems we could play a role.
Our technology with an hybrid system.
Understanding exactly that – that it is hybrid and that a bulk power
capability would be derived by another type of system.
And the potential does exist for us to work with other solutions
providers to provide an optimum blend between a power capability and bulk power,
bulk energy storage, my apologies. So
we are evaluating those opportunities as well.
Potentially integrating with other solutions to provide a more complete
and total solution meeting all the requirements of a utility.
Warren:
Obviously
the main focus at this point is the frequency regulation isolated market, so to
speak… um, in a place like…
RP:
I think you’re correct, if I can interject, I think that you’re
correct in saying yes, frequency regulation for both, at the ISO level, or grid
stabilization at the micro grid level, but there’s also the very substantial
renewable integration opportunity. The opportunity to solve and address the
intermittency associated with these new technologies. The rapid ramping up and
ramping down associated with wind, associated with photovoltaic, so we could be
the buffer that smoothes that and enables the utility-scale deployment of those
technologies to be connected directly to the grid with us acting as a buffer.
Operator:
And we’ll
go next to Robert Mollinari, a private investor.
Robert:
Yes, I appreciate
your taking my call here. I’m
just trying to find out. I’ve
been in your stock, on-and-off, for a number of years unfortunately it’s
become more of a pain than anything else. What
seems to be wrong with the battery? I
hear all its good attributes and everything else.
Is it we’re not getting to the right people to sell this thing? Or is
it too expensive? Or, why aren’t
the sales starting to attract other buyers like A123 or something?
(Indiscernible)
TC:
I think, as I stated in the opening remarks, we have a number of sales
opportunities in the pipeline. The
last several conversations we’ve had at quarter ends, and what not, we’ve
talked about the long sales cycle and we’ve also talked about the negative
affects of the stimulus bill. I
think all those things have impacted 2009.
We’ve also said that we’ve seen considerably greater numbers of
inquiries and filling of the pipeline in the last six months than we’ve seen
prior to that. So we’re
optimistic that we’re moving in the right direction.
To answer your first question: There’s
nothing wrong with our battery or battery systems.
It’s just it’s a long sales cycle. The utilities tend to be very
cautious in adapting new technology. Nobody
really wants to go first. They want
to be confident that everything is functioning. So now with our selves and A123 out there, A123, of course
has some systems under test in Southern California for frequency regulation.
It also has some systems in Chile for spinning reserve.
Now those are out there and at least our data has been made public so
other utilities, and what not, are beginning to see “Yeah, this is working and
it is doing what they say they’re going to do.” So, as they become more
comfortable with real-world data then they’ll be able to make further purchase
decisions. Robert, I don’t know
if you wanted to add anything?
RP:
I think that, Terry’s point about data, we now have an increasing
amount of data from the demonstration at the PJM location and that is now
enabling us to validate our thesis, our value proposition.
We’re talking to, as Terry pointed out, customers that are risk averse,
the utilities. They can’t afford
to take risks. They can’t afford
failure. It’s catastrophic for business and residential customers. So as our
data emerges that validates the capabilities of our system that enables these
conversations and sales efforts to enhance.
And I think there’s a lot of drivers in terms of the renewables, power
quality requirements, the aging grid. There’s
a confluence of factors that are now coming together that I think we are, not
only Altairnano, but the storage industry is approaching an inflexion point
where you will begin to see an increasing number of demonstrations and those
successful demonstrations will then lead to an aggressive ramp in sales for
potentially those market participants that add value.
Robert:
How does your battery compare to A123? It seems like I keep reading about the lithium ion. And I
know Altairnano’s is supposed to be better but we’re not getting the sales.
Again, that’s the main problem. You’ve gotta put it at the top before you
can put it at the bottom.
TC: We
certainly understand that revenue is an important issue.
With respect to our systems, and A123’s, in a comparative situation
here, if you look at the total life of a battery system, and you look at the
differences in the technologies; Ours being a lithium titanate based system,
A123’s being a lithium iron phosphate. If you look at the, for instance, the
total delivered energy, or the total regulated energy, over the life of one of
those systems we will deliver roughly four times the total regulated energy that
a comparably sized A123 system would do. And
again you have to back that up with real data and that’s what we’re doing
now.
RP: And I’d like to also respond by saying we embrace,
understand and embrace, your desire for top line revenue.
And that’s why a year ago, after having crafted our market entry
strategy, Terry enabled the development of a new team both in external sales
representatives, very seasoned, high quality, proven, as well as an internal
marketing expertise. That team has
now been forged, and working very cohesively in 2009 and we expect success in
2010 to be able to deliver to our shareholders.
TC:
And what we’re taking to market today is a complete and total system which is
also a differentiator between us and A123.
A123, as we understand it, is selling the power portion, the battery
portion, of that system. We believe
that customers want a total solution. They
come to you and say “Fix it’ and we’ve put in a whole solution.
That’s what we’re taking to market.
(34:30)
Operator: And we’ll take our next question from Steven Scow, San
Francisco Sentry.
Steven:
Hi Terry. Hi Robert.
You know I always like to hear about the Howitzers.
Is the Altair battery on the Army’s schedule and, as I recall, it’s
about a third the size of a car battery, kind of like in a motorcycle or an
electric bike. And are we seeing any orders from the other armed services in
terms of any unit volume?
TC:
You’re
correct on the rough size of the system. The
DOD budget that went through I think has shifted some priorities within
the Department of Defense. To
be candid I’m not sure what their timeframe is.
They’ve actually never shared a timeframe with us. They have shared
that it has shifted. But they have
continued to do that testing on the forty systems that we sent them and, as far
as that testing is concerned, as far as I’m aware, it’s all continuing to go
well. Of course if you like big
Howitzers you ought to love big ships and the good news there was the extra 4
million dollars we just received in the Defense Appropriations Bill that was
signed on the 19th of December. So, our work with the military
continues. Our exposure within the
military continues and we think that that will be a good baseline business for
some time to come.
RP: And
there’s growing recognition and appreciation for the capabilities of our
technology. The Army is, all the branches of the military are, extremely
risk averse as is seen through the rigorous testing that all new technologies
have to go through because of the reliability issues. And we continue to see, actually, additional
opportunities within the military. So
I think we have a growing portfolio of opportunities and the key one being the
ONR project continues to move forward. So
we’ve also added another representative with significant power generation,
alternative technology, experience to the military’s business development
team, who’s just on board, of the same caliber, training, and skills set as
the other three that I spoke of.
Steven:
Great. Thanks.
Operator:
And we’ll
take our next question from James Watson, a private investor.
James:
Thank-you
for taking my call. I have two
questions. One. Just in general, the ISOs have been changing their rules and
regulations to provide for payments to battery storage devises. It’s difficult
for me to try to read those and find out if we’re coming out on top or losing.
Can you make a comment if the changes are good or not-so-good?
RP:
OK, I think
categorically, in broad sense, they’re good. So what’s beginning to happen
is the ISOs… you’re referring to the market mechanisms.
So the market mechanisms have to be in place to be able to recognize the
value of this solution. A manner in
which someone compensated to provide it, therefore they’re interested in
purchasing an asset to enable that business opportunity.
And, broadly speaking, they are being written and evolving in a manner
that is favorable to us. It’s
also important to understand that we’re not sitting idly by and waiting for
these things at the end of a subscription service that sends us an update and we
suddenly wait and say “Oh! It worked out great or it didn’t work out
well”. We are actively involved
in some industry groups and have actually invested in sort of a higher standing
within some of these industry groups to be able to be on the steering
committees. So there may be an
industry group of twenty or thirty participants.
We have invested at a higher level which enables us to be amongst the
five companies on a steering committee basis that are actually talking directly
with officials with some of these state public utility commissions. So we are now actively involved in the lobbying, the
messaging, the education to these constituents making them aware of the
capabilities of our system and how we can add value and then they drive the
legislative agenda. We’ve been
very aggressive in that regard and we’ve taken the lead in some of the key
states that are really the leaders in the adoption of new technology that are
also larger and that also have a larger need as well.
James:
Thank-you. That
was the first question and very thorough response so my take on that is that
they are making the changes and that will make even additional value to the
utilities from using the ALTI ESS system. The
next question, though, has just to do with Amperex or, perhaps, just new
technology that you have coming down the pipe or, perhaps a new application
because most of the existing talk on the conference calls all seems to do the
existing 3 or 50 amp cells. Can you
comment on any additional development like improving the temperature range or
anything like that?
TC:
Let me make
a minor correction to your statement; it’s actually 11 and 50 amp cells are
our two commercially available sizes. We,
of course, have an active R&D program looking to improve that offering. I don’t want to get into any specific details about that
but your direction is correct. There
are a lot of folks out there looking at improving energy density, power density,
and potentially even cell design. I
do believe in the markets that we’ve targeted that our basic prismatic design
is the right way to go. If you look
at some of the public documents of A123, for instance, you’ll see that
they’re moving in that direction as well which, I think, reinforces our
decision. But yes, we, of course, have an active R&D program to continuously
improve the product itself as well as the process for making that product.
Operator:
And will go next
to Jack Reneo, a private investor
Jack:
Hi Terry and Robert. Thank-you for hosting this forum. We understand that
different batteries have different chemistries and therefore attributes.
Regarding the Navy destroyer and the Proterra projects these applications appear
to require more of an energy solution than a power solution at least on the
surface. Can you elaborate on how these edges against other chemistries
potentially in the marketplace?
TC:
Your
statement is, in fact, exactly opposite. These
applications require power and not energy.
Jack:
Good.
TC:
On a relative basis, of course. On
the ONR ship we’re talking about a 2.5 megawatt system which would be
600… 650 kilowatt hours roughly. I
mean that’s substantial energy but still you’re talking about using that
energy in a 15 minute timeframe so it’s power that they’re really looking
for. The thought too, is looking at
power both for charge and discharge. The
only way that you can recharge those batteries to 100% in ten minutes or less is
to have the high power capability, in this case, the high charge rates.
If you look at competitive technologies they simply don’t have the
symmetrical charge rate capability that we do and that is a key differentiator.
Jack:
Thank-you for clarifying that. I
wasn’t quite sure. Everybody’s
trying to strike that balance between energy and power and I think that’s
pretty important to note. I have a f…
TC: If
I can add what we are trying to do is identify those markets that best overlay
our technologies. For instance, in transportation, that’s why we’re focusing
on mass transit because it’s a perfect overlay for the attributes that we
bring versus a full-electric car, and multiple designs thereof, those really
need energy to be able to take them more than a hundred miles. And that’s just
not something that I think our technology is ready to address at this point in
time. We’re looking at power, mass transit, it’s a perfect
overlay. Didn’t mean to interrupt
you.
Jack:
No, I think that makes a lot of sense and I’m glad to see that focus
and that niche. I think that’s really what we need to see.
An unrelated question but it touches on what you mentioned earlier
regarding the Phase three, and the Navy destroyer project? I know you mentioned
that it’s going to come out in Q1. Can
you elaborate a bit on what is expected in this phase?
How long it’s going to last? And are there other stages after this?
TC:
There will be four stages total that’s kind of the broad design.
Phase 3 will be the next step in that active program.
Right now Phase 2 is building some smaller scaled systems for testing and
Phase 3 would improve on that and go to the next larger phase.
In terms of timing, I would guess Phase 3, will start sometime later this
year with a target of completion sometime toward the end of the year at which
point phase 4 would kick in. We
don’t have exact contract details at this time. We’re in negotiations with
those as we speak.
Operator:
And we’ll take
our next question from Michael Yosenda, a private investor.
Michael:
Hey guys. A couple of quick
questions: Do you yet have an ROI
for PJM? Do you have an update yet
to figure out what their ROI on putting in one of your systems?
TC: We have developed a very strong and detailed econometric model
for these systems so the rapid answer to your question is “Yes we do”.
And we are sharing those, that model, of course, with all our potential
customers and they have embraced it enthusiastically.
Michael:
Can you give us a guess as to what the payback would be for one of the
installations? Payback period?
RP:
That really
depends on a variety of things the primary driver being the fluctuating prices
of frequency regulation service itself. So
in the last year, year and a half, we’ve seen tremendous volatility in the
prices of frequency regulation. And there’s a lot of market participants out
there that suspect that it’s now going to go back up. It’s largely driven,
it’s impacted by fuel oil prices, as well as capacity. This is the first time
in, I think, fifteen or twenty years that we actually have excess ca…, that
the demand, the amount of electricity consumed has actually gone down. So all
these things ultimately influence the price of frequency regulation and that
influences the payback period. So
we have a fluctuating payback period. And that all varies depending on market
and geography. So the critical thing that we now understand as a result of
hiring, really, a superior business development team, is there are different
markets around the world that pay differently for frequency regulation and have
different drivers and the cost of fuel is very different as well as the
cost of frequency regulation. So we
now understand that.
Michael:
And then
you can therefore target the markets you want where you have the best fit, I
guess.
RP:
Exactly,
Michael, exactly. We now have an
appreciation for, with this econometric model as well as the other drivers,
which are the markets that are more fertile, represent fertile soil for the
introduction and the commercialization efforts of Altairnano.
Michael:
Good. Good. With
respect to A123, they keep talking about a prismatic cell. Have you seen anything in the marketplace on that?
TC: I’ve
seen probably exactly what you’ve seen.
Michael:
OK. They talk a
good game but I really haven’t seen anything um…
TC:
That was
actually mentioned as far back as their S1 filed in August of 08.
They talk about potential prismatic development.
Michael:
Yeah, yeah. So I guess it’s still on the drawing board.
TC:
They’ve spoken a lot about their systems but certainly on the grid
scale items we haven’t seen any public data.
If anybody else has it I’d love to see it. We’ve not seen any of it
whereas ours has been out there now for about 18 months.
Michael:
Do you know off-hand is their charge rate as symmetric as yours or do
they have a…?
TC: No,
it’s absolutely not as symmetrical. That’s
one of the key differentiators between, fundamentally, the lithium iron
phosphate and lithium titanate technologies.
Michael:
Their
charge is what? How much longer do you think, on a…?
TC:
It
obviously depends on how high, or how rapidly, they’re trying to charge it.
But they cannot charge as quickly as we can. Their discharge rates, appear, at least in the lower ranges,
like the 4 C range, to be OK. But
it’s the charge rate side that they’re limited.
Michael:
And that frequency regulation segment, I guess, there’s a constant, you
want to be charging right shortly after your discharged.
That’s a fairly important…?
TC: You want to be doing whatever the ISO is demanding of you.
It could be charge, it could be discharge. You have to have that
flexibility, but long term, you have to have that same capability both going up
and going down.
Michael:
In-and-out.
TC: And
that’s where the symmetrical profile really is leading.
RP: And Mike, if I can interject, Terry can also speak to the fact
that at higher C rates, higher power requirements, our cycle life is not
negatively impacted. At certain C
rates, once you get above a certain threshold other competing systems their
cycle life accelerates in degradation.
TC:
That’s correct, yeah.
Operator:
Our next question comes from Peter Cardillo, Avalon Partners
Securities.
TC: Hi
Peter.
Peter:
Hi, Good afternoon gentlemen. Just a few questions.
The first question that I have is, well it’s not a question, actually.
I want to compliment you on your choices of salespeople there, their bio
certainly was quite impressive, but that leads me to the second question is why
don’t we get press releases regarding this? For instance, I think the market
needs to know this. We seem to have
this lack of communications between management and the marketplace.
Another point is the fact that we’ve recently learned of the suit filed
against DesignLine and we had no press release.
I think if the market had more explanation perhaps we could see a higher
stock price.
TC: Well,
we obviously give consideration on how best to get information out there.
We felt that this type of conversation was a more appropriate path for
discussing our sales team rather than putting out a specific press release.
I think the DLI piece has been discussed in our filings so I’m not
quite sure why you think that that’s not out there.
In fact it has been out there.
RP: We’ve also, Peter, spoken on some of these conference calls
on building, really, an elite sales team. I
have mentioned it. And the organization is committed to bringing on these types
of professionals both in an external sales role, supporting roles, marketing
roles, and all the roles necessary and capabilities necessary. Terry has clearly
demonstrated that commitment and leadership during his tenure here.
TC:
And let’s
be clear and not pull any punches, Peter, what’s ultimately going to raise the
stock price is a revenue stream.
Peter:
Absolutely!
TC:
We know
that and we’re committed to that and I’m optimistic that 2010 will be
considerably better than what we’ve been able to deliver in the past for the
very reasons that we expanded on earlier today.
Peter:
OK.
RP: Thank-you,
Peter.
Peter:
Thank-you.
Operator:
We’ll
take our next question from Ken Young, a private investor
Ken: Yeah, Hi guys. I don’t know if you remember who I am. I met with you November 2008. I braved a snow storm over those mountains to come see you guys for a while. And I realize that you’re working very hard but I really do have a lot of concerns about what’s going on. I guess my first question is: Do you perceive your market as an expanding pie that you’re going to get a piece of, or is this going to be a “a one guy wins and everybody else loses” kind of situation? Um…
TC: I
can answer that very quickly. The potential market out here is very huge
that it will take more, it will take more, than one company to get out
there and solve all those problems. It’s
an enormous “pie”. There’s
definitely room for more than one solution out there.
Now, as always, in those kinds of situations you’re going to have one
that’s probably more favored than others. But there’s lots of pie to eat
there, Ken.
Ken:
OK.
I have a couple of follow-ups. The
first one is: This twelve megawatt system that A123 has installed in Chile.
Were you in the running for that?
TC:
No, that’s in a completely different application, Ken.
That’s in a spinning reserve application and it’s really not what we
believe is our forte’ for our technology.
So no, we did not participate in that.
Ken:
OK, the other thing is, apparently, there are a lot of installations out
here of solar energy and wind power and so forth. What are all these folks doing about their frequency
variations now that they’re waiting so long to give you guys a contract?
TC:
When
you’re in the onesy-twosy percentage points of the total grid the frequency
regulation issues brought on by a small wind farm are not significant.
It’s when that percentage grows up beyond to the 5-10 percent range,
that they’re really going to see problems. For instance, I believe that,
Robert, you can speak to this that NV Energy says that they’re not
going to take any more renewable projects without some kind of a storage
capability to mitigate that.
RP: Correct.
TC:
So, those
are coming, but when you’re in the low percentages the pressure from the grid
really isn’t as great as it will be when we begin to integrate some of those
renewable portfolio standards that have been proposed, I think now, in 26 or 29
states across the country. So
it’s coming, it’s coming.
Did you
have one more question, Ken?
Operator:
Actually we’ll
take our next question from William Mann, W.K. Mann and Company.
William:
Good-afternoon, gentlemen. Just one
little housekeeping: How is your cash situation and your burn rate until we
start to see some of these big orders that you’re talking about? And then I
have a follow-up on that.
TC:
Well, our
year-end numbers will be out towards the end of this quarter. We haven’t
publicly disclosed our ongoing cash situation.
I think if you go back to the last 10Q and look at our cash position and
look at the relative cash flows that were leading up to that you’ll find that
we are on a similar track. So
we’re consistently, as we said earlier we’ve been building inventory in
anticipation of closing these orders and that that took us up into, an order of
magnitude, 2 million dollars a month, burn rate.
William:
So you
don’t anticipate any financing anywhere in the near future?
Is that correct?
TC:
We have not
scheduled any financing at this point in time but, you know, I’m not going to
say we’re not going to do it, that wouldn’t make sense, but we will do it
judiciously and at the appropriate times that we feel it’s necessary.
William:
OK, fine. You’ve been on the
phone a long time and I don’t want to hold you on.
I’d like to just come back to one or two subjects that you brought up.
Do you mind if I call you off-line?
TC:
If, real
quick, because I’m headed out as soon as we…
William:
No I’ll call you
next week That’s fine. Who
can answer some questions off-line is what I’m asking.
RP:
We can
address all questions to Cleantech IR.
Their email addresses can be found on…
William:
Yeah, OK,
that’s great but do me a favor. You gotta get them to return calls when
potential investors.., we’re investment advisors and when you call you don’t
get them to return your call. You need to remind them to do that.
RP:
We will
address that sir. And we’ll take that up immediately after the call. I will be
speaking to them personally and I understand clearly what you’re articulating
to me and we will address it quickly.
Operator:
And we’ll go
next to Warren Stevens, a private investor.
Warren:
Yeah, I
just had one follow-up on the isolated grid potential customers.
Is a one-megawatt box a significant unit for them?
With significant costs? That
they would have to look at doing engineering work or understanding, in other
words, I mean, a really really big utility company a one unit isn’t going to
be a huge financial situation for them. I guess my question is about the size of
those isolated grid customers?
RP: OK. Excellent question. I think that you’re thematically directed at the scale, the proportionality of our one-megawatt solution in proportion to their needs. There are over 900 rural electric co-operatives in the United States and their power generation capabilities range from just several megawatts to hundreds of megawatts. So the one megawatt base unit, the base configuration that we have, that we’re offering, is well in line with their needs as well as their financial capabilities. And in terms of the price it’s all a question of the current cost of the pain and the engineering challenges and the corresponding financial pain that they’re feeling as a result. We see a significant opportunity within rural electric cooperatives and, as a result, we’ve joined the proper groups and are working with and targeting rural electric cooperatives so to answer your question, in summary, they are more than capable of being able to utilize and financially justify our solution.
TC:
As William
stated a minute ago we’ve been on now for an hour.
I greatly appreciate the opportunity to have a talk with all of you and
look forward to continuing this kind of dialogue in the near future.
Thank-you all very much for your participation!
Operator:
And again
that does conclude today’s conference call. Thank-you for your participation.